E-Mailbag: 8th-grade recruiting

Sunday's column questioning the trend of awarding scholarship offers to eighth graders produced a few e-mails.

Some of them even got past the tired old anti-UK/pro-UK argument and focused on the main issue.

Some excerpts:

• Rusty wrote, "The thing that u need to be focusing on is the kids age.  If he were a 15yr old Sophomore would you even be writing your article about Mr. Avery?  And as far as the national media goes such as the article in Sports Illustrated.  UK is hated outside of its own state when it comes to basketball.  If Coach K, or Roy Williams had done what coach Gillespie has done they would be praised for their ability to evaluate talent.  The age and not the grade of the young man is what sould be looked at.  Cause at 15 he is a young man.  And hopefully your negative undertones towards Coach Gillespie will not be in your future articles.  Because, the national media will definitely take care of the negative."

• Kelly wrote, I was a sophomore in HS when I was 15 years old...I don’t think we have an epidemic here because 5 or 6 eighth graders are committed to a college....and I agree that when they do, the parents are very involved at the time....it is because a big time program has the commitment that it gets the press that it does.....
  
  Coach G seems to have taken the path he has to stay competitive.....he also said that if the rules change, he will change with them...no problem there.
  
  To me, after all the criticism for the lack of recruiting around here, I am happy to hear about getting players earlier.   If these young men (and their parents) are participating in AAU tourney’s all over the country, then I think that they open themselves up to the recruiting game....AAU seems to be the spring board to college for players......
  
  Finally, and if you had coach by himself, I do wonder if he expected Avery to commit as quickly as he did.....it is one thing to offer sure, but I am wondering if he expected that 3 days later the kid committed.  Who knows.....
  
  I still do not see a problem as of yet......the NCAA will need to either step in or step aside on this issue.....
  
  Good article........The Sunday edition seems, however, to be “piling on” on this issue however...."

• Tim wrote, "Parents spend a lot of money to develop their children athletic skills.  I'm sure they are excited that there monetary investment is rewarded as well as their children's hard work and skills.
  
  I think about a young student at The Lexington School (parents paying more than 15K a year in tuition) working at night and weekends, going to academic camps in the summer....if they were offered a full ride scholarship to Harvard in the eighth grade, I am sure the parents and child would be thrilled.  And the offer would be accepted.
  
  When they received a B+ on their Chemistry exam, everybody would criticize the kid and say he's not worthy of a Harvard scholarship.  Just as when Avery misses two shots in a row, people will say the same thing about him.
  
  I think the early signings are just a symptom of our society's over-emphasis on sports in general.  If BCG doesn't land the talent, his 2M+ paycheck goes away. 
  
  Nice article but ease up on BCG."

• Polly wrote, "Reading your story today reminded me of driving through Knoxville this week and hearing a local sports talk show hammering Billy G. for this latest recruitment of the young players. We even heard that KY. was paying players, people were calling with derogatory comments etc. It was a reminder of the past we wish to forget. It was sad to hear us being laughed at all over Big Orange country. This is not the way we want the game or KY to go."

• Otto wrote, "He could be like your good friend stupid tubby and not do any recruiting. Didn't hear you complain about his pitiful recruiting."

• David wrote, "I agree with your article wholeheartedly.   As a KY grad living in Tennessee, I have been embarrassed  before this by Gillispie's recruiting.  All the while, Bruce Pearl is signing players who are highly rated and who can play next season!  All I can do, when teased about the direction of the Kentucky program is shake my head and say "it won't get much better until we get rid of the "The Mistake."

• Mary wrote, "I am surprised that everyone seems so upset that colleges are recruiting so early.  They seem to forget that they are offering a student a college education, that the student will earn by doing a job (sports) that he or she already loves.   If he or she does well..the sky may be the limit...if they never reach the pros....they will still learn good lessons of life ..work hard..study hard....set goals...play on a team... setting expectations can never begin to early ...in fact...if a new parent without a college degree (who does not want to get one themselves) comes to me and asks "how can I make sure my child will go go college." ....It's a lot better than flipping burgers or working jobs where no one cares if you graduate...

• D.L. from Prestonsburg wrote, "I interpreted Billy Clyde's action (offering scholarships 6 years in advance) as his long term commitment to UK.  Any potential player has to arrive at same conclusion."

• Adam wrote, "Shortly after the departure of Tubby Smith, the UK athletics department hired a coach who was known for his ability to recruit talented athletes who would fit into his system and win basketball games.  Along with the university’s President and A.D., the national and local media outlets recognized his proven ability to recruit talent that rebuilded programs as a premise to choosing BCG.  Now that he has his first true off-season to dictate how, where, and who he wants to recruit, BCG has and is proving that he will do everything he can legally do to get the best talent in a Kentucky uniform for the 2008 and 2012 season.  Ethically, is it right to pursue talent at such a young age?  At a glance, most would probably agree with you – it’s an easy point to argue.  However, the fact of the matter is that intense competition as seen in the emerging parody of college sports will inevitably lead to coaches to change/innovate their recruitment in order to achieve competitive advantage and ultimately do what they were hired to do; succeed.  This is the aggression BCG spoke of.  Text messages, private planes, teleconferences, state of the art practice facilities, and early commitments are all examples of how fast the dynamics of recruiting the best players in the country by the best programs in the country are changing – the Darwinism of recruitment in college athletics.
  
  Similarly, athletes are getting better at a much younger age.  Over the years, billions of dollars have been invested into countless training programs, advanced leagues/tournaments, camps, and equipment which all intend to make a player better.  By joining X League or training with Y gym in the off-season, athletes will further separate themselves from competition so that they may better their chance to continue to develop on the collegiate level.  Therefore the reality is this – combined with the fact that more players are getting better at a younger age and the increasing parody in college basketball, both coaches and players are going to take whatever competitive advantage they can get to succeed.  From these two perspectives, you cannot ignore that very nature of sport is rooted in a culture of competition that will continue to evolve and push the envelope.
  
  With that being said, BCG is not taking this program in a “direction” that “stoops” to a new low.  So, assume as we all did when he was hired, that when BCG offered Avery the chance to be a wildcat, he did so not using the common sense of a sports writer but the common sense as one of the best recruiters in the country.  I sincerely hope that anyone who makes $2.3 million – a year – whose job requisite is to recruit and win games will be confident enough to continue to recognize ability before age."

• Terry wrote, "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah."

Comments

[Brian Shannon]

Dave (living in TN) as a comical response. When he said " I have been embarrassed before this by Gillispie's recruiting. All the while, Bruce Pearl is signing players who are highly rated and who can play next season! "

yep tons of time when you have players who can't make the grade and fail drug tests....AGAIN. Crews already served a suspension for a little pot - 30 days and then came back to the team. Nice program they got down there in Vols land, what exactly have the ever won again?

As for recruiting 8th graders. Was it any different when Tubby agreed to take Williams for WV? His may not have been 8th but I believe it was 9th.

People seem to think that Billy is the first to do it when in fact UCLA did it over 5 years ago. They took a verbal from an 8th grader who this past season ended up going to Duke.

Not to mention that USC - which is another well run program - took an 8th grade verbal last year.

People the school isn't allowed to contact kids that young. They have to be in the 9th grade before you can contact them, UNLESS the parents contact the school. Maybe that is a bigger problem, parents pushing the kids to do it..naw that could never happen, it's got to be a coaches fault.

Seems to me that maybe the NCAA should tighten up it's rules. I mean if it is legal to do such then what as Billy done? Played by the rules? Hmm a concept that Tennessee and USC should look into....IMO

[Ralph]

That long response from 'Adam' had two interesting lines I agreed with, and a good fifty or so trying to erase its truth. The lines were, "Ethically, is it right to pursue talent at such a young age? At a glance, most would probably agree with you – it’s an easy point to argue."

It is easy, and yet so many words from so many people twisting and turning, trying to make it not so easy to point out.
Just because other people are doing it(and will do it) doesn't make it ok. My mom taught me that when I was five.

I've yet to see an argument for recruiting middle-schoolers(or 15-year olds), just a lot of excuses.

[S.Smith]

JOHN:

It seems that you and Jerry have once again are critical of UK and verge on the anti-UK Club. Although this is not true, it looks that way for many. If parents truly care about the education of their children, this should be a non-issue. The NCAA has become useless in view of the number of individuals which receive a college degree in the manner of Forest Gump. How do these so called student athletes pass an exam? By proxy in most cases.

[John Clay]

One word on Taylor King. He did receive plenty of publicity when he committed to UCLA just before the start of his freshman year at Mater Dei. He later re-opened his recruiting and chose Duke. Now he is transferring to Villanova after one year at Duke.

[Alex]

Of course, a verbal commitment from an 8th grader is meaningless. Avery cannot sign a letter of intent and the offer can be withdrawn at any time. These offers are little more than window dressing. So, if a Coach is to be lambasted for what amounts to a shadow puppet show, why do it?
As with a lot of the things, Billy G. would appear to have reasons known best to him.
Another piece in an overall puzzle of erratic behavior or thoughtful recruiting move? Only time will tell.

[George Johnson]

I don't know why everyone is in an uproar over kids that commit 5 years out, more than likely they will never see UK. IF the kids blow up like most think or hope, they will have a huge X on their backs for all schools that are big time to recruit them, and I would say 50% will end up somewhere else. The Avery kid, sounds great to his parents now, but if UCLA or AZ comes calling and that much closer to home, where do you think he truly ends up? And Zollo, the kid is a UK fan, where do you think he was going?
I would much prefer this coach be able to land high school kids now versus juco kids that may or may not qualify and prep kids that are having a hard time passing a ACT test. Seems we can get MS kids, jucos that only St Louis wanted, but we can't get top flight hs kids that are ready to play now. Or we can get a juco that this will be his 4th stop in 3 years.
What I would like to see more of is this information that came out about all the injuries that supposedly took place at G's previous two stops. I have followed UK basketball for 20 years and cannot ever remember 3 stress fractures in one year.

George/Murray